Photos by Stephanie Klein-Davis | The Roanoke Times

Donald Rumsfeld, the architect of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq while he served as defense secretary, answers questions Thursday posed by Roanoke College professor Harry Wilson at Jefferson Center. He said the invasions left those countries better off than before.

Roy Forbes (center) and Katrina Wood (right), part of the Occupy Roanoke group, protest the arrival of the former defense secretary on Thursday.

Donald Rumsfeld mused on the future while defending his past during a sprawling, one-hour conversation in Roanoke on Thursday.

The two-time former U.S. secretary of defense and architect of last decade's invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq under President George W. Bush appeared at Jefferson Center to promote his memoir "Known and Unknown." More than 350 people listened as Rumsfeld spoke with Roanoke College professor Harry Wilson on his work with presidents since Dwight Eisenhower, his policy decisions while serving as secretary of defense for Gerald Ford and Bush and his opinions on the politics of today.

The appearance was protested by members of Occupy Roanoke and the Plowshare Peace & Justice Center, who carried signs with slogans such as "Torture is a crime."

Rumsfeld held steady when questioned on that criticism. He defended Bush's decision to classify individuals taken into captivity during the so-called "war on terror" not as prisoners of war subject to the Geneva Convention but instead as "enemy combatants" who could be detained and interrogated.

Rumsfeld said that no waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning, took place at Guantanamo Bay detention camp, and he said that to his understanding only three people had been waterboarded at all by the Central Intelligence Agency.

On the question of the failure of U.S. troops to find biological or chemical "weapons of mass destruction" — the supposed presence of which was used as justification for the invasion of Iraq — Rumsfeld said that a later report showed that experts, facilities and precursors to those weapons were indeed found, even if the weapons themselves were not.

Rumsfeld placed that intelligence failure in context against the historical backdrop of similar failings, from the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 to the underestimation of the Soviet Union's military capabilities during the Cold War. He blamed politics for turning that into a talking point that damaged Bush's popularity later in his term.

"What happened was political enemies of the Bush administration said this thing, 'Bush lied, people died.' And that was unfair," Rumsfeld said. "It's unfortunate that that became the theme, because it's not a healthy thing for something that inaccurate to get that much play."

He did express disappointment and remorse at the prisoner abuses documented at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. He called the incidents "absolutely disgusting," said they damaged the reputations of the Armed Forces and country, served as inspiration for al-Qaida and led to him twice to offer his resignation as secretary of defense.

But on the whole, Rumsfeld said he believed the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq left those countries better off than before, even if the road ahead will be difficult.

"I think it will take time for them," Rumsfeld said. "On the other hand, it's two fledgling democracies in that part of the world, and at some point you have to take your hand off the bicycle seat."